The energy war

You Seppos love your "wars" don't you? Terror, drugs, now gasoline!

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contrex wrote:

You Seppos love your "wars" don't you? Terror, drugs, now gasoline!

I know that word scares the French unless you can get someone else to fight them for you. :wink:

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American energy problems can not be solved by more environmental damage, nor aided very much. We need to dramatically alter our economy, cut energy usage by 30-40%, and move to nuclear transmitted by electricity until we find a new energy source. Railroads need to be fully electrified, auto and truck usage made expensive with a $4 a gallon tax which is used to fund mass transit and upgrading our rail system.

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hawkeye10 wrote:

American energy problems can not be solved by more environmental damage, nor aided very much. We need to dramatically alter our economy, cut energy usage by 30-40%, and move to nuclear transmitted by electricity until we find a new energy source. Railroads need to be fully electrified, auto and truck usage made expensive with a $4 a gallon tax which is used to fund mass transit and upgrading our rail system.

Get real. $4 a gallon tax. and we all would have to go on welfare. Remember the price of energy impacts all the necessities of life. Have you noticed the price of food lately? Imagine what it would be with your additional $4 tax. What is needed is a real energy policy not a pipe dream.

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au1929 wrote:

hawkeye10 wrote:
American energy problems can not be solved by more environmental damage, nor aided very much. We need to dramatically alter our economy, cut energy usage by 30-40%, and move to nuclear transmitted by electricity until we find a new energy source. Railroads need to be fully electrified, auto and truck usage made expensive with a $4 a gallon tax which is used to fund mass transit and upgrading our rail system.

Get real. $4 a gallon tax. and we all would have to go on welfare. Remember the price of energy impacts all the necessities of life. Have you noticed the price of food lately? Imagine what it would be with your additional $4 tax. What is needed is a real energy policy not a pipe dream.

we will need to redistribute the societal wealth, take from the rich and give to the poor. But we must find a way to stop shipping so much of our wealth out of the society by paying energy bills. All for one and one for all, we are all in this together. We must as a nation suck it up and figure out a way to keep our quality of live. Political ideals and economic theory will need to adjust to the new realities.

we just got an economic stimulus check, which was nothing more than a charge on our kids charge card. Every dollar that was handed out was paid for with financing from the Chinese and other societies with money to lend. It will all need to be paid back, with interest. It would be more morally right if we took the money from the wealthy among us rather from our kids and grand kids.

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hawkeye10
I see Karl Marx is alive and well. Let me remind you that communism has proven to be a failed economic system.

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au1929 wrote:

hawkeye10
I see Karl Marx is alive and well. Let me remind you that communism has proven to be a failed economic system.

I am a socialist, thank you very much. The example of what we need to do is more FDR than Marxist theory. Regulation, redistribution of wealth, and nationalization of segments of the economy may be necessary.

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Au1929 wrote:

know that word scares the French unless you can get someone else to fight them for you.

I wouldn't know. I'm British.

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Who's to Blame for High Gas Prices?

For several decades, the Democratic Party has pursued policies designed to drive up the cost of petroleum, and therefore gas at the pump. Remarkably, the Democrats don't seem to have taken much of a political hit from the current spike in gas prices. Probably that's because most people don't realize how different the two parties' energy policies have been.
Congressman Roy Blunt put together these data to highlight the differences between House Republicans and House Democrats on energy policy:

ANWR Exploration House

House Republicans: 91% Supported

House Democrats: 86% Opposed

Coal-to-Liquid
House Republicans: 97% Supported
House Democrats: 78% Opposed
Oil Shale Exploration
House Republicans: 90% Supported
House Democrats: 86% Opposed
Outer Continental Shelf (OCS) Exploration
House Republicans: 81% Supported
House Democrats: 83% Opposed
Refinery Increased Capacity
House Republicans: 97% Supported
House Democrats: 96% Opposed
SUMMARY
91% of House Republicans have historically voted to increase the production of American-made oil and gas.
86% of House Democrats have historically voted against increasing the production of American-made oil and gas.

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au1929 wrote:

Who's to Blame for High Gas Prices?

For several decades, the Democratic Party has pursued policies designed to drive up the cost of petroleum, and therefore gas at the pump. Remarkably, the Democrats don't seem to have taken much of a political hit from the current spike in gas prices. Probably that's because most people don't realize how different the two parties' energy policies have been.
Congressman Roy Blunt put together these data to highlight the differences between House Republicans and House Democrats on energy policy:

.

That's part of the story (though there are good reasons to vote no that we don't need to get into). What about on the spending side, reducing our usage of energy? Why don't we have better mileage standards on cars and trucks? Why did we dismantle over half of our rail network 1980-2000 so the energy efficient rail can not now be used to get trucks off of the road? Why don't we have an energy plan? Why don't we have more mass transit? Why did we keep building roads when we already had too many cars and trucks sucking up to much fuel? Why did we encourage cheap air fares which encourage more people to use the energy expensive airline system as well as destroy the economics of the entire industry? Why did we remove most of the regulation from the energy industry this set the table for the leaches who suck money by speculating and manipulating energy production and transportation?

Republicans are at least as guilty of bad judgement at best/corruption at worse, then the Dems are.

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hawkeye10
You still have failed to address the question. Why are we not searchig for and developing the sources for gas and oil available to us here at home?

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au1929 wrote:

hawkeye10
You still have failed to address the question. Why are we not searchig for and developing the sources for gas and oil available to us here at home?

Because finding the quantities of oil that we are likely to find will not make any difference, there-for it is not worth destroying the environment and our view sheds trying. That human energy should be put into cutting our energy usage, and finding new sources for energy. In the meanwhile we will have no choice but to go back to nuclear, until such time as we find something better. We will need to get people onto mass transit, which will mostly be rail and buses, and we will need to electrify our rail network. The electric grid will be primarily powered with nuclear and coal. Giving the public the idea that we can avoid all this by finding more oil is counter productive, it delays the transition that we need to make. Even the most wildly optimistic dreams for new oil do nothing but delay the change over by a few decades, and these dreams will not be realized. Almost the entire rest of the world is far ahead of us, they have been for a long time sinking major money into their mass transit and rail systems. Not only do they have networks of trains that operate at over 180mph, but the also can power them with what ever energy source is cheapest at an given time. Building new electric generators is a relatively quick and cheap procedure.

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Gas is the equivalent of $5.30/gallon in some places in Canada now so you can certainly afford $4.00/gallon.

You just have to get rid of your big boat cars, your Hummers, your SUVs, your recreational trucks and vehicles and start economizing.

Make one trip instead of 3. Carpool. Buy a 4 cylinder car or a hybrid. Turn down your thermostats. Etc. Some of us have been doing this for years. No need to freak out about it.

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